Comments on: Death and Religion http://www.otherbs.com/2009/03/04/death-and-religion/ Change your beliefs, change your world. Fri, 03 Feb 2012 11:47:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Matthew McDaniel http://www.otherbs.com/2009/03/04/death-and-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-21249 Matthew McDaniel Sat, 26 Mar 2011 20:41:36 +0000 http://www.otherbs.com/?p=385#comment-21249 Not only is your blog extremely appealing aesthetically, but you have an incredible way with words. You really inject your personality and life into what you write, making it thoroughly easy to get into. You had me right from the start with this piece (because I wanted to see where you were going with it and how you were going to get there) and you fleshed out your thought just enough to make it a top notch article, and you ended off with the perfect words, which really doesn't happen that often, in my view. Being an atheist, I love reading how one can put an intelligent spin on a situation already dealt with, and you absolutely made me think about this subject from a slightly different vantage point, so I thank you for that! I'll most certainly be reading more of your posts, and I can only imagine I'm in for a treat! Not only is your blog extremely appealing aesthetically, but you have an incredible way with words. You really inject your personality and life into what you write, making it thoroughly easy to get into.

You had me right from the start with this piece (because I wanted to see where you were going with it and how you were going to get there) and you fleshed out your thought just enough to make it a top notch article, and you ended off with the perfect words, which really doesn’t happen that often, in my view.

Being an atheist, I love reading how one can put an intelligent spin on a situation already dealt with, and you absolutely made me think about this subject from a slightly different vantage point, so I thank you for that!

I’ll most certainly be reading more of your posts, and I can only imagine I’m in for a treat!

]]> By: David Cain http://www.otherbs.com/2009/03/04/death-and-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-204 David Cain Wed, 25 Mar 2009 22:47:49 +0000 http://www.otherbs.com/?p=385#comment-204 Yeah, I think death anxiety was the reason humans invented ceremonial burial, which led to religion. Even as early as 50,000 years ago, perfectly good possessions were laid next to corpses and buried. I guess the survivors hoped the corpse would somehow get a chance to use them later, because they couldn't bear the thought that life was indeed finite and fragile. I think religions have had at least two other origins though: 1) It gave people a way of believing they had some defense against nature's cruelty. If people convinced themselves that it was unseen, fussy gods who were responsible for the failed crop and the flooding, gods who could be appeased with prayers and sacrifices, then people could feel like they weren't <i>quite</i> at the mercy of dumb luck. 2) Later on, some really smart people learned smarter ways to live (namely the wisdom of nonattachment and nonjudgment) and they taught others. The big religions (Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and friends) all started as just a bunch of smart things to do, but eventually got institutionalized into judgmental and intolerant things to do. Human nature strikes again. Yeah, I think death anxiety was the reason humans invented ceremonial burial, which led to religion. Even as early as 50,000 years ago, perfectly good possessions were laid next to corpses and buried. I guess the survivors hoped the corpse would somehow get a chance to use them later, because they couldn’t bear the thought that life was indeed finite and fragile.

I think religions have had at least two other origins though:

1) It gave people a way of believing they had some defense against nature’s cruelty. If people convinced themselves that it was unseen, fussy gods who were responsible for the failed crop and the flooding, gods who could be appeased with prayers and sacrifices, then people could feel like they weren’t quite at the mercy of dumb luck.

2) Later on, some really smart people learned smarter ways to live (namely the wisdom of nonattachment and nonjudgment) and they taught others. The big religions (Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and friends) all started as just a bunch of smart things to do, but eventually got institutionalized into judgmental and intolerant things to do. Human nature strikes again.

]]> By: ctgrow http://www.otherbs.com/2009/03/04/death-and-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-119 ctgrow Tue, 17 Mar 2009 03:15:30 +0000 http://www.otherbs.com/?p=385#comment-119 The thing is, I genuinely believe that your experience with Tarot isn't coincidence, as I believe my experience with a Ouija board wasn't a coincidence, either. Regardless of whether I believe in good vs. evil spirits (I personally find more evidence for this spiritual duality than against it), I guess my point is that I don't/can't believe in straight-up logic. I can't, because I know every logical argument can be logically argued against, as long as you look hard enough for what you're looking for. It's like republicans or democrats reading books/articles published by their own party: it will just be constantly reinforcing the message they're trying to find. That's where my heart/conscience/gut/faith comes in. I'm not saying that my rationale/argument/reasoning is fool-proof, because no human reasoning is. My belief comes not from my mind, but my heart. I know, I know that sounds like garbage, but I really have no other words for it. Anyway, I'm obviously still gonna keep reading your stuff, because it does spark tremendously helpful self-analysis in me. Your stuff is engaging and poetically to the point. The thing is, I genuinely believe that your experience with Tarot isn’t coincidence, as I believe my experience with a Ouija board wasn’t a coincidence, either.

Regardless of whether I believe in good vs. evil spirits (I personally find more evidence for this spiritual duality than against it), I guess my point is that I don’t/can’t believe in straight-up logic. I can’t, because I know every logical argument can be logically argued against, as long as you look hard enough for what you’re looking for. It’s like republicans or democrats reading books/articles published by their own party: it will just be constantly reinforcing the message they’re trying to find. That’s where my heart/conscience/gut/faith comes in.

I’m not saying that my rationale/argument/reasoning is fool-proof, because no human reasoning is. My belief comes not from my mind, but my heart. I know, I know that sounds like garbage, but I really have no other words for it.

Anyway, I’m obviously still gonna keep reading your stuff, because it does spark tremendously helpful self-analysis in me. Your stuff is engaging and poetically to the point.

]]> By: Angus http://www.otherbs.com/2009/03/04/death-and-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-114 Angus Sun, 15 Mar 2009 23:16:59 +0000 http://www.otherbs.com/?p=385#comment-114 Fair enough… and well played. Still, I never say (in my passage) that I <i>believe</i> in tarot, just that I can't explain it's peculiar power. Nor do I routinely look to tarot as a guide to daily life, it is merely one tool I use to negotiate reality. Maybe you're putting too many eggs in one basket? cheers, Angus Fair enough… and well played. Still, I never say (in my passage) that I believe in tarot, just that I can’t explain it’s peculiar power. Nor do I routinely look to tarot as a guide to daily life, it is merely one tool I use to negotiate reality.

Maybe you’re putting too many eggs in one basket?

cheers,
Angus

]]> By: ctgrow http://www.otherbs.com/2009/03/04/death-and-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-113 ctgrow Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:19:05 +0000 http://www.otherbs.com/?p=385#comment-113 It is easy to dismiss this story as a vague coincidence or perhaps as a case of self-fulfilling prophecy and if it makes you feel better I encourage you to do just that. But it was my experience and I couldn’t deny it so easily, though I wasted much time trying to believe in some comfortable explanation for God's Word's inexplicable behavior. But uncanny examples kept accruing - for instance, one night I dreamt of a passage from God's word and the next day I had encountered a scenario that applied perfectly to the passage I had just dreamed! In fact, like dreams, whenever I actually pay attention to God's Word for more than a few days startling synchronicities pile up like firewood. It's logically unexplainable, but it doesn't sound like gobbledygook to me. It is easy to dismiss this story as a vague coincidence or perhaps as a case of self-fulfilling prophecy and if it makes you feel better I encourage you to do just that. But it was my experience and I couldn’t deny it so easily, though I wasted much time trying to believe in some comfortable explanation for God’s Word’s inexplicable behavior. But uncanny examples kept accruing – for instance, one night I dreamt of a passage from God’s word and the next day I had encountered a scenario that applied perfectly to the passage I had just dreamed! In fact, like dreams, whenever I actually pay attention to God’s Word for more than a few days startling synchronicities pile up like firewood.

It’s logically unexplainable, but it doesn’t sound like gobbledygook to me.

]]> By: Angus http://www.otherbs.com/2009/03/04/death-and-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-102 Angus Fri, 13 Mar 2009 04:03:26 +0000 http://www.otherbs.com/?p=385#comment-102 You're referring to Zeno's Paradox, one of my favorites. And I have to say, <i>"I certainly admit that I cannot completely (or even generally) explain my beliefs logically. Then they wouldn’t be beliefs, they would just be my own hypotheses."</i> is rather an extraordinary statement—I think it's gobbledygook, personally. cheers, Angus You’re referring to Zeno’s Paradox, one of my favorites.

And I have to say, “I certainly admit that I cannot completely (or even generally) explain my beliefs logically. Then they wouldn’t be beliefs, they would just be my own hypotheses.” is rather an extraordinary statement—I think it’s gobbledygook, personally.

cheers,
Angus

]]> By: ctgrow http://www.otherbs.com/2009/03/04/death-and-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-101 ctgrow Fri, 13 Mar 2009 03:13:23 +0000 http://www.otherbs.com/?p=385#comment-101 sorry about the italics....I don't do HTML very well, obviously. sorry about the italics….I don’t do HTML very well, obviously.

]]> By: ctgrow http://www.otherbs.com/2009/03/04/death-and-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-100 ctgrow Fri, 13 Mar 2009 03:12:23 +0000 http://www.otherbs.com/?p=385#comment-100 Hmmmm...<i>logically dodgy<i>. I certainly admit that I cannot completely (or even generally) explain my beliefs <i>logically<i>. Then they wouldn't be beliefs, they would just be my own hypotheses. There seems to always be a loophole in any logic; always an irreducible building block that someone must lean on/build on, otherwise they don't. They aren't. And then we're left with nihilistic skepticism, which, considering the depth of impact our emotions have on us, seems absolutely absurd, and the least logical idea a human could stand behind. One example of a perfectly mathematically logical proposition rendered silly when the scenario is forced upon the physical world is the proposition by some old philosopher (don't remember who) who said that in order to get from A to B, you first need to get halfway from A to B; in order to do so, you first need to get a 1/4 of the way there; and in order to get a 1/4 of the way there, you first need to get an 1/8 of the way there, and on down to the infinitely small fractions you go... This is, of course, silly, but it's logical in a mathematical sense, until it's forced upon the physical world, in which case you just GO from A to B. It just happens. You just assume that time passes and that you start moving and you go. Logically tormenting yourself on how to get there, assuming you have to get 1/2 way there first, is just torture. Not a perfect example, but I think it conveys my point: everyone makes certain assumptions that they <i>believe<i> in. Whether someone admits it or not, everyone believes <i>something<i>. I fully agree that blindly and unquestioningly assuming that a given belief system is inerrant is equally as ridiculous as thinking you can figure everything out on your own. As far as our understanding of the nature of the duality of the spiritual/physical world (I firmly [I'll stop using words like "stalwart"] believe human existence is dualistic) I really appreciate the Plato Allegory of the Cave, where he compares normal assumption to being chained to a wall, watching shadows, thinking that there is nothing more to what they see than the shadows themselves. But when freed of the chains (examining your belief system?) you see that the shadows are just a reflection/propagation of what is truly moving/existing/happening - the light source, the puppets/figures, etc. I like this scenario very much when comparing it to our own bodies (the shadows), the physical world (the wall), and our souls/spirits (the figures actually making the shadows). Free your mind from the chains, yahda-yahda-yahda, I know. I just like the analogy of how little we know about what makes things tick. There's a lot more to the analogy, but thinking about this specific application seems enlightening when pondering what is smaller than sub-atomic particles. Hmmmm…logically dodgy. I certainly admit that I cannot completely (or even generally) explain my beliefs logically. Then they wouldn’t be beliefs, they would just be my own hypotheses. There seems to always be a loophole in any logic; always an irreducible building block that someone must lean on/build on, otherwise they don’t. They aren’t. And then we’re left with nihilistic skepticism, which, considering the depth of impact our emotions have on us, seems absolutely absurd, and the least logical idea a human could stand behind.

One example of a perfectly mathematically logical proposition rendered silly when the scenario is forced upon the physical world is the proposition by some old philosopher (don’t remember who) who said that in order to get from A to B, you first need to get halfway from A to B; in order to do so, you first need to get a 1/4 of the way there; and in order to get a 1/4 of the way there, you first need to get an 1/8 of the way there, and on down to the infinitely small fractions you go… This is, of course, silly, but it’s logical in a mathematical sense, until it’s forced upon the physical world, in which case you just GO from A to B. It just happens. You just assume that time passes and that you start moving and you go. Logically tormenting yourself on how to get there, assuming you have to get 1/2 way there first, is just torture.

Not a perfect example, but I think it conveys my point: everyone makes certain assumptions that they believe in. Whether someone admits it or not, everyone believes something. I fully agree that blindly and unquestioningly assuming that a given belief system is inerrant is equally as ridiculous as thinking you can figure everything out on your own.

As far as our understanding of the nature of the duality of the spiritual/physical world (I firmly [I'll stop using words like "stalwart"] believe human existence is dualistic) I really appreciate the Plato Allegory of the Cave, where he compares normal assumption to being chained to a wall, watching shadows, thinking that there is nothing more to what they see than the shadows themselves. But when freed of the chains (examining your belief system?) you see that the shadows are just a reflection/propagation of what is truly moving/existing/happening – the light source, the puppets/figures, etc. I like this scenario very much when comparing it to our own bodies (the shadows), the physical world (the wall), and our souls/spirits (the figures actually making the shadows). Free your mind from the chains, yahda-yahda-yahda, I know. I just like the analogy of how little we know about what makes things tick. There’s a lot more to the analogy, but thinking about this specific application seems enlightening when pondering what is smaller than sub-atomic particles.

]]> By: Self-Euthanasia | Belief Systems & Other BS http://www.otherbs.com/2009/03/04/death-and-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-92 Self-Euthanasia | Belief Systems & Other BS Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:38:11 +0000 http://www.otherbs.com/?p=385#comment-92 [...] stopped taking nourishment: refusal was the only option left to him. It took a few days, but he did die, on his own terms and after an honorable [...] [...] stopped taking nourishment: refusal was the only option left to him. It took a few days, but he did die, on his own terms and after an honorable [...]

]]> By: When Bowling Pins Die | Belief Systems & Other BS http://www.otherbs.com/2009/03/04/death-and-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-91 When Bowling Pins Die | Belief Systems & Other BS Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:35:36 +0000 http://www.otherbs.com/?p=385#comment-91 [...] 1, 2009 When bowling pins die, the blameless ones —the pins that never shirked front line duty, who never once flinched the [...] [...] 1, 2009 When bowling pins die, the blameless ones —the pins that never shirked front line duty, who never once flinched the [...]

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